Vasectomy stories discussion
The names below are people who originally agreed to participate in public discussion of their story. Names without an arrow to the left have no discussion yet. If you would like to add a discussion point to any of the stories, please email me, and please state what story you are commenting on!
Page updates:- New comment added to Keith's story September 23, 2007
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Art
December 26, 2003. Comment by David:-
I have a fear of being naked in front of nurse, do you have to go through this?
December 26, 2003. Comment by webmaster:-
Don't worry about it. I'd say that medical staff involved are aware of our embarrassment, and make efforts to minimise it. When I had my pre-op check with the nurse I was fully clothed. In the office when I had the procedure done the doctor and nurse left the room whilst I undressed, got on the couch and covered myself up with the sterile drape. The nurse did see my testicles, but that was all that was uncovered. It was fine - honestly.
February 1, 2005. Comment by Axe:-
Think about what will happens next and the nurses in the room will seem none existant.
Bskulli
Dairenn
Duncan
June 26, 2003. Comment by Trifold:-
I'm sorry you're having a bad time--but had to laugh at your son's sympathetic participation. It's interesting (although not from your perspective, I'm sure) that you have had these complications after a rushed surgery under general anaesthesia. I've often wondered whether doctor's take longer under local--and are more careful--because the patient is awake and watching. The good news is that hematoma generally does resolve quite successfully. I hope you repost to your story as things develop.
November 11, 2003. Comment by Alan:-
Just had mine done on monday about 5 times their normal size at the moment plus severe bruising all over accompanied with severe pain just been back to the drs who has prescribed an anti inflatery drug and anti biotic although says he doesnt think its infected says he hasnt seen anything this severe in a long time personally think its bleeding internally how long did it take to return to normal can hardly walk at all at the mo.
Giraud
Graham 2
Greenfeather
Greg 2
Ian
James
Jonathan 2
Keith
March 3, 2004. Comment by John:-
I'm just going to live with it, I am pretty sure it was caused by nerve damage during the original op., so I don't think there is anything that can be done to restore things by furthur interference. Maybe the damage will be restored by my own body in time? who knows? I have stopped seeking any more answers as it just makes me stressed and depressed. I think the only thing that would give me satisfaction now would be for someone to put the original urologist on a table and give me a couple of bricks, but maybe that's not altogether helpful in this discussion.
March 12, 2004. Comment by John:-
I think it is unlikely that your syptoms are related to the open-ended vas. I have suffered the same sort of thing since my vas was done 2 years ago. Mine was originally done closed ended, but I then had it converted to open ended 6 months later. The conversion cured the backpressure pain and tension that I had, and slightly improved the sensation on orgasam, but it is still quite frankly crap compared to before. I eventually put it down to unintentional nerve damage during the original op.
March 12, 2004. Comment by Trifold:-
I am trying to figure out what mechanism would account for the change in your experience. I think horniness is a function of T not sperm accumulation in the testicles. For example,even before my vas sex usually made me hornier. If there is a mechanical source of the horny feeling I doubt it is pressure in the testicles, but in the the ampullae (a semen reservoir further up the line). That still occurs after vas, since most of the semen comes from the prostate and other seminal vesicles, not the testicles. What kind of study do you think could find a physical cause of your problem?
March 13, 2004. Comment by Keith:-
Obviously I don't know exactly what the cause is or I would say so. What I do think is that this was a result of the vasectomy for some reason & I am not the only one who thinks this way. Seeing that studies I have heard of from my urologist & the one posted on the Pubmed site can't offer conclusive evidence either way, I think that further study is definatly needed. I also hope that someone like you guys that have added to this forum might have answers.
March 13, 2004. Comment by Keith:-
I would be interested in knowing if John has all, or just some of the changes that I have & if the doctors have been any help?
March 15, 2004. Comment by John:-
I would say my syptoms are broadly speaking similar, except I don't recall the contraction feelings in the testicals. In fact the testicals feel 'left out' of the orgasam, before the vasectomy the feelings of 'eruption' seemed to build up in the testicals and sweep up from there. 'Experts' will deny this. In answer to doctors help, I can answer this quite simply. NONE. Totally disinterested, if pushed they just write it off as psycological. I think the symptom of being less bothered about whether you have sex or not is probably related to the fact that the orgasam is not exactly mind-blowing any more.
March 18, 2004. Comment by Keith:-
The testicles are out of the picture for me too. John,are you planning on going for any further follow up with doctors, or are you just going to live with it? I am presently inquiring with the Dept. of Sexual Medicine at a local University,through my doctor to decide if a referal to them will provide any more answers.
March 22, 2004. Comment by Keith:-
I don't get stressed or depressed since I have found that this is known to happen. It took a while to find a doctor that would admit it & I know that it is quite rare. I think part of the reason it seems to be rare is that most guys don't want to admit to this type of problem. The first Urologist said that there are no documented cases, so I asked him who is keeping track because we have one right here & that I had little trouble finding stories of others on the internet. No response from him. I will update my story as it unfolds.
March 28, 2004.
I had my surgery about 8 months ago and had a very similar drop in sex drive. My balls ached for about the first 6 months off and on (especially during sex). The most regretable part is the orgasm. It's almost not worth having sex because it's so anti-climatic. I've been waiting for it to get better.
March 31, 2004. Comment by Keith:-
John, When you mentioned that you felt nerve damage was the cause of the changes that you experienced, I figured that it was your own theory since I had never heard it anywhere else,until now. My wife mentioned my situation to her doctor. The doctor said "oh,nerve damage? A reversal could cause more damage. I haven't had this happen to any of my patients yet." Were you told that this was a possible cause or have you seen this published or posted somewhere?
April 9, 2004.
I met with my doctor this past Wednesday. He has been doing vasectomys for 10 years and told me he has never had anyone request a reversal for the symptoms (reasons) I gave him. I find it really interesting that the only two guys I work with that have been "fixed" both had the same symptoms. One of the two guys is getting a reversal because he is getting remarried to a younger woman
who wants a child. Folks in the newsgroup have highly recommended seeing a reversal specialist if you are planning on going forward. I have asked my coworker for his doctors name and phone number for a second opinion.
Blood was taken to test my testosterone levels and he suggested some Korean Ginsing to improve the intensity of my orgasm but other than that offered no solutions.
Insurance now covers about 60 - 70 percent of the procedure which costs about 10 grand. I'd like to kick my doctor in the balls and myself for not doing more research before having this dumb ass surgery.
April 24, 2004. Comment by Keith:-
I recently received an interesting e-mail from a man that saw my story on this website.He had a vasectomy about 8 months ago & experienced similar symptoms to mine.After discussing his situation with his co-workers,he discovered the only two other men that had had vasectomies at his work also had similar or the same symptoms. He is currently trying to get answers without much luck so far.
June 15, 2004.
I recently had a vasectomy and have had exactly the same symptoms as you. Lack of sensation, reduced satisfaction after ejactulation, etc. Do you believe that reversal would eliminate most of these symptoms. I am one month out and do not want to wait several years to see if things get better. Like you my doctor dismisses most of my complaints. I would think that the sooner reversal the more likely it would succeed. Any thoughts?
August 28, 2004. Comment by Rich:-
Did you ever go through with the reversal? I don't have any pain but the rest of my symptons are similar to yours. I am considering a reversal myself.
August 29, 2004. Comment by Keith:-
I have decided not to go for the reversal for now. I am concerned that I may end up with worse problems if I go under the knife again. I might be one of the lucky ones for not having pain problems. I intend to update my story this winter.
August 29, 2004. Comment by Keith:-
Rich, Have you had any luck finding a doctor that has any experience with our type of symptoms? What have they told you? I have found it hard to find doctors that believe it could be a physical change that has caused it. I know it is not psychological.
August 30, 2004. Comment by Rich:-
I will let you know soon, I'm seeing the doc. who did mine tomorrow. Rich
September 9, 2004. Comment by Keith:-
Rich, Thanks. Let me know how it goes.
September 13, 2004. Comment by Rich:-
Hi Keith!
Well, I went to the doc. and told him I was positive this was not a mental problem and I even printed part of your story for him to read and told him I could get as many of these testimonys as he wanted. He read it while I was there and told me he could see no way that a vascetomy could physcially change anything. I told him that it did and someday they are going to change their opinion when they find out the truth. He said he would check on this and give me a call. I had to call him back about a week later, he said he talked to a few other urologist and they had all heard of this problem and he said it is caused by a "fear of unwanted pregnancy", yep, physcological. Unbelievable.. The fear would have been "before" the vascetomy and I never had any problems then. I asked about a reversal and he said he didn't see how it would help and that they cost between 7-15 thousand and it's not covered by insurance.. so, now I'm not quite sure what to do, I've been thinking about talking to a lawyer. I would like to talk to someone who has had a reversal and get their thoughts on this. seeya, Rich
September 16, 2004. Comment by Keith:-
Rich, My wife recently read me something from a novel that she was reading. It said "psychology is the medical professions dumping ground when they cann't figure out what's wrong". I think this is true in our case. I suppose I am lucky to have found a doctor that will at least admit that the psychological theory has never been proven. Just look at the link in my story, to the study posted on the "Pubmed" website if you want to see a lame conclusion with no data to back up the assumption that the cause is Psychological. Shouldn't this study have included the numbers of patients that were successfully treated with councilling? While searching the Pubmed site I came accross another vasectomy study that wasn't really related but did mention that men who have had reversals to treat symptoms like ours were excluded from the study. The study was done in China. I have since tried to find additional information on what the Chinese may know about this problem & reversals for it but haven't had any luck. I've thought about legal action too. The medical community doing vasectomies is being very irresponsible by not informing men that there is a real risk of this side effect. I don't how we could win a case unless we could find a study or a doctor with experience in this to back up with data what we already know to be fact. Stay in touch or e-mail me with the e-mail link if you like. I have been trying to encourage some of the guys that have e-mailed me to post on this site in order to put more of the stories like ours in one place. It seems to be relatively easy to find stories like ours but I think it is best if they are together so that other guys can print them off to show their doctors that this happens more often than they think.
September 16, 2004. Comment by Keith:-
Here is an e-mail sent to me.
Message : I recently had a vasectomy and have had exactly the same symptoms as you. Lack of sensation, reduced satisfaction after ejactulation, etc. Do you believe that reversal would eliminate most of these symptoms. I am one month out and do not want to wait several years to see if things get better. Like you my doctor dismisses most of my complaints. I would think that the sooner reversal the more likely it would succeed. Any thoughts?
September 16, 2004, 2003. Comment by Keith:-
Another e-mail. I had my surgery about 8 months ago and had a very similar drop in sex drive. My balls ached for about the first 6 months off and on (especially during sex). The most regretable part is the orgasm. It's almost not worth having sex because it's so anti-climatic. I've been waiting for it to get
September 16, 2004. Comment by Keith:-
Another e-mail. I met with my doctor this past Wednesday. He has been doing vasectomys for 10 years and told me he has never had anyone request a reversal for the symptoms (reasons) I gave him. I find it really interesting that the only two guys I work with that have been "fixed" both had the same symptoms. One of the two guys is getting a reversal because he is getting remarried to a younger woman who wants a child. Folks in the newsgroup have highly recommended seeing a reversal specialist if you are planning on going forward. I have asked my coworker for his doctors name and phone number for a second opinion.
Blood was taken to test my testosterone levels and he suggested some Korean Ginsing to improve the intensity of my orgasm but other than that offered no solutions.
Insurance now covers about 60 - 70 percent of the procedure which costs about 10 grand. I'd like to kick my doctor in the balls and myself for not doing more research before having this dumb ass surgery.
September 16, 2004. Comment by Keith:-
Another e-mail. Message : I had a vasectomy 3 years ago and while I have not had any major problems I have had minor problems like yours. I am absolutely dumbfounded that doctors think it is mental. It is physical.
Before the vasectomy I used to get what are called blue balls -- my ball would ache if I had not had sex recently. Also, when my wife played with my balls it felt really good and when I came it felt great.
The male system is nothing more than a hydraulic system. The prostate produces most of the fluid and the testicles produce a small amount of fluid -- before a vasectomy the fluid is free to flow between the prostate and the testicles and the pressure between the two of them is equal. After a vasectomy (open ended) there is no pressure on the testicle and the pressure from the prostate is stopped by the clamped off vas.
I had a lot of trouble with the clamped off vas. They run over the bladder and if if did not cum frequently it felt like my bladder was sore. If I came too frequently the area in front of my bladder was also sore.
You might try several things. If you have trouble cumming (thick cum) you might try an over the counter expectorant. You might try having sex on a regular schedule, like every other day. Finally, I have a low throid and my sex life is very dependent upon the exact amount of thyroid. You might try to get a doctor to give you a prescription for one grain of thyroid a day -- be sure and take only natural thyroid - Armour. Good luck!
September 18, 2004. Comment by Rich:-
Hi Keith! thanks for the info, it's quite the coincidance that sooo many guys have this "mental" problem... I'll keep ya posted on any thing I find out as well.. seeya,
September 24, 2004. Comment by Geoff:-
Keith, I have had a very similar experience. I had a vasectomy 6 weeks ago and all I have read suggests that I should be "back to normal" by now. I was about to call my doctor to ask what was going on when I saw your article.
My libido is now consistently lower. Whereas I used to get many erections during the day for no explicit reason, I now get none. I have not noticed any problems with sex but I have to work at it to get an erection.
Although supposedly fully anethaesitised during the operation, I noticed a particularly deep and pervasive pain when one Vas was cut (I think). It was like being kicked hard by a sharp boot in that testicle. This side was more painfull during recovery and has had a dull ache since.
So much for the propoganda about the safety of the method. I see the entry about nerve damage and I wonder whether this has happened to me. Anyone able to comment professionally on the location of nerves in this area that might be affected by a vasectomy???
November 8, 2004. Comment by Keith:-
Rich, It's too bad I don't have all of the old e-mails to post. A few have been deleted. I see that the e-mail link is longer operational from this website. Maybe e-mail addresses can be given out with permission through the Webmaster of this site. Too bad but at least the postings can still be added. On my last posting to Geoff I forgot to mention that the pain was when the doctor was squeazing the vas VERY hard to identify it. Lookimg foreward to hearing how you make out with this situation.
November 8, 2004. Comment by Keith:-
Geoff, I have questioned the urologist that I saw about the comment my wifes doctor made regarding nerve damage & he does't agree that it is possible.In the next breath he stated that there are microscopic nerves everywhere. I think the nerves in the vas definitely could be a factor as I experienced incredible pain when the doctor was making sure he could find both vasses at my original consultation pre-vasectomy. I really would like my wife to question the doctor a bit on her next visit to see if there is something published in a medical journal where the idea may have originally come from. Lets keep each other up to date as we come up with new information.
January 31, 2005. Comment by Kay:-
I had a tubal ligation 25 years ago during my third c-section. When I went to the doctor and told him about my terrible problems after the surgery, he told me it was all in my head. I went from doctor to doctor and was told the same thing repeatedly. One told me to quit wallowing in self pity, and do volunteer work to get my mind off of myself. Some suggested that I didn't think of myself as a woman anymore. Not so. I thought the tubal ligation was the greatest invention since the wheel. I could have spontaneous, carefree sex with my husband because there would be no more worries about pregnancy and a c-section at the end. It took me 9 months to accept the correlation between the tubal ligation and my pain and disfunction.
I had a cousin who had been a LPN for years and had just graduated with her RN, so I figured she would be up on the latest information. When I told her my woes, she started giving me the same line the MDs had given me. However because we were related, I didn't take it from her. When I finished, she acknowledged that I was experiencing the same symptoms as other women who'd had a tubal ligation. Then she said, the reason that doctors are pushing tubal ligations so hard is that MEN EXPERIENCE SO MANY COMPLICATIONS FROM A VASCETOMY!
After 4 1/2 years of agonizing pain, I had a laser microtubal reanastomosis (reversal). There were 3 doctors in 2 different states who told me that a reveral wouldn't help my symptoms because of all of the tiny nerves and blood vessels that were cut. They explained that those tiny structures could never be put back together. I was desperate and took the gamble anyway. I had a 75% recovery from the reversal.
February 15, 2005. Comment by Keith:-
Kay, Thanks for the information! It is quite shocking to me that so many doctors simply quote theories about the causes of symptoms as though they are proven to be facts & suggest it is in the patients head. I would like to know what the true percentage of post-vasectomy problems is. From what you were told it must be far more than the 2 to 3% I was told before mine. I have found that by being persistant an honest doctor will back off & admit that there is much that is not known. I am happy that your symptoms are much improved & it make me think seriously that I should have the reversal done.
March 19, 2005.
I had my reversal surgery in January and wanted to give it time to bake in before responding to you. My coworker never did get his surgery but I can tell you how mine went. I ended up going back to the same practice (different surgeon) since they felt somewhat responsible and did it for 50% off the surgeon fees ($5200 total). He did a midline cut and you almost can not see the scar since it was right on the "seam" of my scrotum.
I waited the 2 weeks before I try my new equipment and I could definately feel the orgasm was more intense. It stayed that way for a while and now some orgams are intense and some remind me of what they felt like right after the vas. Sex drive has remained fairly low however. Pain was much less severe this time around also.
Mentally I had to have the surgery. I had become despondent and my marriage was suffering. I really did not feel like I had any choice. Overall I feel like it was worth it but really I have to say that to justify the 5K I spent. I hope things are good with you and let me know if you have any other questions.
May 1, 2005.
I'm glad I found your notes online. After my wife had our third child, I decided to suck it up and do the manly thing and get snipped. My doctor was of foreign descent and there seemed to be a communication gap between us. Nevertheless, the procedure seemed to be perfectly normal. That was in 2001.
I had serious pain for weeks after. I took a week vacation immediately
after just so I wouldn't have to move off the couch. I continue to have dull aches in my testicles and pain if certain areas are touched 'wrong'. Like you, I have noticed a big difference in quality of sex. Prior to my vas, I had a pretty impressive 'air time' upon ejaculation. Orgasms were ugly-face toe-curling. Now, even though I still love sex, it isn't what it used to be. Ejaculation is, in my opinion, weak. Sensation upon orgasm is nice, but not toe-curling.
I have been seriously considering a reversal. Have you found any
additional light about this procedure?
December 30, 2005.
Thanks for posting what you have. I logged into this site looking to see if other post-vas men had the same symptoms I did, and your story rings very true for me.
My symptoms can best be described as decreased satisfaction with the after organsm period. There's no pain, and the orgasm itself feel good (though I did have a short period of wierd contractions in my testicals immediately post-op like you described.) The feeling is like I'm unfulfilled on some deep physical level. I don't have that satisfied feeling like I used to that was similar to feeling full after a holiday meal. It feels good, but I'm still horny. I'm never satisfied no matter how many orgasms I have but I still only capable of one or two. This just leaves me frustrated.
I also have been told by everyone (wife, doctors) that this can only be from a physchological cause since all the literature indicates that there can be no physical cause. This is a bunch of crap because I didn't change phycogically during the surgery and that is exactly when my symptoms started. It's been 7 years now and every orgasm has been different then it was pre-vas, regardless of the partner I was with or whether I was masturbating. It seems pretty clear to me it's from a physical cause.
Thanks again for posting your experiances. It helps to read that someone else has had the same symptoms as me.
August 20, 2007.
I had a vasectomy about 11 years ago and noticed the following immediately after my procedure:-
A reduced level of pleasure at orgasm. I too feel like I am low on semen from previous orgasms but without having any "strange contracting or squeezing sensations". This is my greatest concern given I had great orgasms prior.
- Semen volume is reduced and lumpy or jelly like in appearance.
- Dribbling a little after urinating.
- Mild aches in my right upper groin (not in my balls).
I didn't have any of these issues pre-vasectomy!
A few months after the vasectomy I returned to the doctor who performed the procedure and he indicated that there wasn't anything wrong. I also visited a urologist and he too indicated that there couldn't be anything physically wrong. I tried to ignore this until recently when I searched the web to see if anyone else had issues. I was excited to hear of your problems given they are much like mine - unfortunately I haven't found too many others with similar issues?
I have an appointment this afternoon with a specialist who performs
reversals and am seriously considering putting things back to normal if it is at all possible. Did you eventually undergo a reversal? If so did it help? How are things going with you now? Have you discovered any more information related to your issues?
Thanks for your help.
September 23, 2007. Comment by Butch:-
I have read Keiths story reguarding his problem with his vasectomy. Everything he has discribed is EXACTLY what I am going through right now. I had a vasectomy in May 07. I noticed and signifitant change in the way my orgasim felt, but chalked it up as a side effect that would go away. A few months later, I still do not have the same sinsation that I did pre-vasectomy and have lost the ability to get and maintin and erection. I was also told that it was physicial problem. Thanks to his story I will be pressuring my urologist more for some better answers rather than just doing test after test and having to wait for what seems like an eternity for the results.
Ken 2
Kevin
Lee
July 28, 2004. Comment by Ron:-
Decided to have a Vas after my girlfriend missed her period but later miscarried. Best thing I have ever done as we no longer have to deal with rubbers or the pill. Sex is carefree now and much more worry free and quite pleasurable without condoms.
July 28, 2004. Comment by Lee:-
Ron, Sorry you & G/f had to discover the joys of V-sex the 'hard' way. Glad the two of you found my story useful.
As you say: "Sex is carefree now and much more worry free and quite pleasurable without condoms." which is exactly what my wife and I found more than 25 years ago when I had mine.
M
Moose
NotForMe
Patrick
Paul 5
June 23, 2003. Comment by Trifold:-
Hi Paul. Thanks for the full accounting. How are you doing? I am esp. interested in what your doc said about more sex to force infection out the epidydimal rupture. This must mean at ejac. the epi contracts even after vas. Did the doc. confirm this? This is something we have been unclear on at the ng, even afer web research. I sometimes experience mild swelling & tenderness in the epi (5 yrs. after vas.) but ejac. always clears it up. That's what I call good medicine!
July 5, 2003. Comment by Andrew:-
Hi paul, glad to see someone with a similiar experience. How are things now?
I've had a second vasectomy 6 weeks ago and developed right testicular pain, abdominal pain and strong right sided pain. Doc says tio increase sexual activity which seems to be working so far. Interested to know if you have found out any further details.
July 16, 2003. Comment by Paul 5:-
Hi Andrew, nothing new to report on the medical front. Still don't have a reliable diagnosis; the Epi/lump on the left side doesn't hurt as much but seems more firm than in some time. I finally got the approval for the Uro second opinion (actually have two coming); will be seeing the first on 7/28.
July 25, 2003. Comment by Vinny:-
Hey Paul, I'm in very similar situation. Going for second opinion nest week. In Pain all the time.I am considering Legal action if they keep telling me there's nothing more to do.What do you think? Do we have a case?
July 28, 2003. Comment by Paul 5:-
Good morning Vinny, sorry to hear you're having problems as well. First, I'm not contemplating legal action. I knew that some risk was involved. And, I haven't exhausted my options for treatment.
Presumably, you were advised (verbal or written) that long term complications can occur and you signed a consent form indicating you accepted this risk. In this case, you'd likely have to show that the surgeon was negligent to have a cause of action.
That being said, you do have the right to be treated for your problems, even though the surgery was voluntary. What kinds of specialists have you seen? A little research on the site or the Web in general shows a wide range of treatment options from conservative to drastic; what did your Uro say regarding these?
Is this your first visit to someone other than the MD who did the Vas? If you keep getting a succession of doctors who won't even discuss options with you, insist on getting one who does (this is assuming you have some sort of insurance). My persistence has gotten me (however belatedly) two second opinions: one from the medical group (their choice) and one from the HMO expedited referral/second opinion group (my choice, within the larger HMO plan).
October 1, 2003. Comment by Bigbatboy:-
I had my vasectomy due to my mild mental retardation, i had my vasectomy when i was 20 y/o. I am now 45 close to my 46th birthday soon in dec 2003. but i am happy to have my vasectomy since i don't have the mental capacity to raise any children. I hope u understand what i am saying. but u r happy with your decision.
January 12, 2004. Comment by Darrel:-
Hey Paul, I too have pain very much like yours. I had a non-scalpel vasectomy 25 days ago, so no open wound stuff you were referring to, but I had several very bad sharp pains a couple of hours after sex (that would happen every 30 seconds or so). The simple little things that cause you pain are exactly my situation as well. I have pain getting out of the car, the simple little jean irritating it, etc. My pain seems to be on both sides. Some days, I can't feel pain on my left side (unless I touch it) and vice-versa. I feel like fluid pressure was the cause - now I'm also thinking that nerve damage might be a cause. I read that an epididymal blowout doesn't tend to happen for years after the vasectomy, but after reading your problem. The doctor gave me Cipro, which helped none. Today is day 8 after the sharp pains, and I'm still having the discomfort that gets worse throughout the day. This past weekend, I was on the couch both days with very little movement. If I sat up, then the discomfort came within an hour. If I laid down, then the pain was very minimal. I tried ice on it, and that didn't seem to help any. I haven't tried heat yet. I got another appt on Wednesday (2 days) to see the same urologist that gave me the vasectomy. I'll probably end up going to a 2nd uro next week, because I'm thinking he won't be able to tell me what's wrong. So are you now completely pain free? and how long did it take to become pain free? Plus any other comments would be a huge plus for me. Thanks.
January 12, 2004. Comment by Paul 5:-
Hi Darrel, You didn't specify whether it was open or closed ended; I'm assuming closed. All in all I got pretty good relief from the abx, but it was 20 days Cipro and 20 days Doxycycline (in addition to the 3 days immediately after surgery to ward off infection). Another thing that helped was the Rx anti-inflammatory. I had it (Indocin) for another condition but it helped a great deal; maybe this would be a way to go.
I feel much better than I did before, and thinking back on it right about the one month point was when things were the worst for me. Probably close to 100%, just 11 days shy of one year post V. I should state, however, that I had periodic pain in the left (problematic) side prior. This doesn't feel the same, but not nearly as bad as the worst pre-V episodes I've had.
Out of time for now. I plan to put something together at the one-year mark. Please feel free to use the E-mail option if you want to know more in the interim.
Make sure you get an ultrasound to ensure nothing is visibly wrong. Understand, however, that a variety of ailments don't show up.
Peter
Peterjazzman
Phlox
June 30, 2003. Comment by Phloxina:-
Just to start things off. Does anybody have any comments about us?
July 2, 2003. Comment by Trifold:-
Sure. I think you guys are cool! (And where have you been these days?) More later.
July 7, 2003. Comment by John 2452:-
I was just wondering, if you could give me your reasons why you as a woman wouldn't want to have kids. I very curious about how women feel about being childfree. I'm considering a vasectomy and have been doing research on it, but I hardly ever hear a woman's point of view about not wanting children. Any insight will be much appreciated. Thanks!
August 9, 2003. Comment by Phloxina:-
My essential familial background is non-european extended family, my education pro-feminist, west-european.
I cannot reconcile my experience of the attitude 'women are for bed and beating' with with my knowledge that there is far more to life than just that. Being cf is, in part, a protest against my paternal male uncles and cousins and their barbaric attitudes to half the world's population.
Together we (Phlox and me) now have more than 30, first degree, nephews and nieces with probably more than 400 of second degree and beyond. Not having children means being able to sit back from the incestuous politics of the extended family and develop one's own abilities and psyche.
RecentlyFixed
Richard 3
July 7, 2003. Comment by Richard 3:-
Hey Guys, coming up on the eleventh month anniversary of my vasectomy. No regrets at all! Only problem is I have had two episodes of granulomas in the past 6 months. Each episode was fairly painful (even when walking) and lasted more then a week. During the first episode the granuloma got so big it felt like I had another ball in there. Doctor said nothing can be done except take ibuprofen and wait for body to reabsorb accumulation of sperm. Second granuloma wasn't as big, but was just as painful. I just hope this isn't a regular occurence every few months.
July 22, 2003. Comment by Trifold:-
Hey Richard, Thanks for posting your story. It's very complete and also fun to read. I'm wondering about the granuloma pain you've been having and whether it might be related to the kind of procedure you had. Did you have the open ended or closed version. (BTW, congrats. on having the . . .urmmm. . .balls to watch. I was too chickenshit, and just stared at the ceiling.) I meant to say, too, thanks for the description of the variocele treatment--which made vasectomy sound easy! And how did you get your wife to change her mind about the vasectomy?
September 30, 2003. Comment by Greenfeather:-
I had a closed-end vasectomy and I believe that the likelihood of granulomas may be greater than with an open-ended procedure. Fortunately (knock on wood) I haven't had any problems for the last 6 weeks or so, and it feels like the granulomas have all but disappeared (I can still feel two small lumps in the cord presumably scar tissue where they were cut-but there is no pain).
I think my wife made up her mind when she saw how determined I was to become sterile. My motivation was partially selfish (not wanting to wear rubbers anymore)but more then that, I didn't want any more children. In her heart my wife didn't want any more kids either, but I think she had a hard time coming to grips with the finality of the procedure. I wasn't phased by that, so I reassured her that I was comfortable, in fact excited about becoming sterile, so this made it easier for her. Now 13 months later one of my wife's girlfriends is pregnant with her 5th child at the age of 38, and my wife is counting her blessings that she doesn't have to ever worry about that again!
September 30, 2003. Comment by Richard 3:-
Greenfeather: I can't remember anything in particular happening before the onset of the granulomas. My life is full of stress (I'm a lawyer); on weekends I like to work around the house so I'm always lifting something; and when everything was feeling good "down there" I would have increased sexual activity. The tell tale sign of the granulomas developing was a pain before ejaculation...it seemed that as my balls pulled up before I came they put pressure on the tubes where the granuloma was developing, so I felt it. Let me know what your research shows. You said you had an open ended vasectomy, which I thought made one less prone to granulomas.
October 11, 2003. Comment by Greenfeather:-
Richard, Everyone that has a vasectomy gets granulomas, it's the healing tissue that forms, kind of like a scar. From everything I've read the open ended is more likely to develop the granulomas as they form a relief valve of sorts to vent off the sperm as it's produced.
I talked with 3 Urologists and 2 Immunologists at university last week and they said that the test would be cost prohibitive and would take approximately 4 weeks to form and maufacture the serum and then to wait to see if you're allergic to your own sperm. I still think there's a better way to build this mousetrap. It really bothers me that you can test for everything else, dust, animal dander and a myriad of other things and a simple sperm antigen test can't be manufactured in mass quantity to say " Richard or Trifold or Greenfeather you are allergic to your own sperm and a vasectomy isn't an option for you." It would save a great deal of pain and suffering to be able to test for this and say if you do it there is a greater likelyhood of developing PVP.
Rick 2
Ross
June 20, 2003. Comment by Trifold:-
It sounds like you talked to the other guys waiting to be snipped. Were they nervous too, or did they act all cool? Did you see any come out after they'd been done while you were waiting, and was that a relief or scary?
June 20, 2003. Comment by Ross:-
Not what I was expecting to be asked I have to admit. I didn't get the chance to talk to the ones I saw leave, as the waiting room was tucked out of the way of the main entrance. But I did chat to those waiting.
None of the others waiting played "Mr. cool". Seemed to me they all had similar circumstances to me. I think they were of a similar age group to me, and I got the impression they were doing it for the same reasons as I did. Chatting to the others waiting helped me, and I think it also helped the others too. Maybe partly because it passed the time, but more likely there was some sort of mutual bond. Yes we were all nervous. Who wouldn't be nervous just before losing his fertility voluntarily? I think it was the first time one of the men there had actually chatted to another man about vasectomy. Talking to others in the same boat was a relief to us all. I don't believe any of the men I was talking to were scared, I'd say we were certainly nervous though.
June 21, 2003. Comment by Webmaster:-
Glad to see you back here! What *did* you expect to be asked about then?
June 26, 2003. Comment by Ross:-
What I was expecting is not so much what happened back then, but how it all worked out. Short answer to that is absolutely fine thanks. I was happy about doing it then, and still am.
Scott 2
Scott 3
Simon 2
Spank
Steve & Lisa
June 26, 2003. Comment by Trifold:-
I'm glad reversal has helped you. But I did want to ask why you think sperm backpressure continued to be a problem after ruptures developed in your epidydimi: Why didn't sperm just leak out of those? Also, did you look into any of the other treatments recommended for pvp other than testosterone therapy and reversal? Reversal seems extreme, in that it is risky and expensive. Worse, it might make you fertile again! (BTW, *are* your fertile again?) Finally, you say one doctor told you doctors expect sperm production to decrease after vasectomy. I have never heard this before. Did the doctor say what would cause this? What I have read does not suggest a possible mechanism for reduced sperm prodcution after vasectomy. It seems while men continue to produce the same amount of sperm as before, they don't develop pvp like you did. I do occasionally get mild tenderness in my epi. But ejac. always causes it to go away.
July 25, 2003. Comment by Steve:-
Hi, Trifold. I had different types of pain, some of which was cyclical, and concurrent with others. Difficult to describe - didn't know exactly what was going on then, and find it hard to describe now.
I had a general sensitivity in the scrotum that was continuous, but did vary in intensity. For example, when I went to the urologist for yet another exam, he would do a routine check of the vas. In almost all cases, this would cause me significant pain and soreness that would last for up to a week - and this was a gentle examination. When I had this level of sensitivity we didn't even try sex - the few times we did, it became impossible to continue or I was deeply regretful later. I think most of this was caused by the granulomas I developed.
So that's one type of pain. The other occurred when my epidydymis became swollen. This was cyclical - would last for weeks or months. Invariably the doctor would prescribe antibiotics, which didn't help. This pressure / pain seemed to be exclusively caused by backpressure - and again only got worse after ejaculation.
I was definitely having ruptures as I had several granulomas. Can't explain why things seemed to back up and cause the problems.... I think most of the pain caused by the doctor's examination was related to the granulomas - but again am not certain about that.
Also had a generalized ache that was pretty constant throughout the scrotum. This seemed to occur whether I had the more acute pain that seemed to be related to granulomas or the pressure / pain that seemed to be related to the swollen epidydimus(i?). My urologist speculated that this could have been caused by the autoimmune responses related to sperm leaking in the body - described it as my body attacking itself as it attacked not only the sperm but the surrounding tissue... again, only speculation - although I would certainly regard it as informed speculation - since there appear to be no scientific studies on any of this....
PVP treatments I was willing to subject myself to:
* anti-inflammatories (both over the counter and prescription)
* antiobotics (waste of time)
* testosterone therapy (no downside to this)
* reversal
I considered all other surgical treatments as holding more risk that I was willing to assume. Given my belief and my doctor's concerns about autoimmune issues, I was not willing to consider converting to an open-ended. I also didn't want to subject myself to surgery and then more surgery if this didn't work. My intuition told me that a reversal would deal with most of my pain - fortunately it has. And yes, I am now fertile - my wife went back on the pill.
July 27, 2003. Comment by webmaster:-
Steve, I'm glad that reversal helped you and I'd like to thank you for your contributions here, and for being etremely honest and open. It's great that people like you are willing to share your experiences and give us this feedback - it can only be for the benefit of those in the same position, and a stark warning to those considering!
July 28, 2003. Comment by Trifold:-
Thanks Steve for this info. It sounds as if your pvp case is one that really did require reversal, prob. due to antisperm antibodies. BTW, there is research on antisperm antibodies both in vasectomised men and non vasectomised. It is known, for example, they do not lead to an increase in autoimmune disease. But it's true, they are not viewed as a common cause of pvp. Not surprising, since about 70% of men with vasectomies develop antisperm antibodies, but they don't develop pvp like yours! Anyway, when I was considering vasectomy I figured reversal would be my solution if I was one of the rare ones who developed pvp that lasted more than a few months and who couldn't be helped by any of the less drastic measures. Glad reversal worked for you. (Sorry your wife is back on the pill though.)
July 28, 2003. Comment by Lisa:-
I'm not sorry I'm on the pill...keeps things normal and on even keel...now that I'm over 40, I'm seeing women my age that go kind of crazy each month. This doesn't happen to me. So, don't feel bad...we have a happy ending!
October 19, 2003. Comment by Greenfeather:-
Glad everything worked out for y'all in the end. Steve, about the granulomas, I have the same thing albiet no where as bad. I had a physical this week and the doctor was hell bent on feeling them. I told him I'd rather he not touch them as this was a sore time and I rather not have them prodded at. He relented and we continued with the rest of the exam. He had a closed ended and he said he was having back pressure problems at times as well. Sounds like yet another dissertation in the making.
November 15, 2003. Comment by Steve:-
Hi, Greenfeather. Sorry about the painful granulomas. Evidently they aren't painful for most. (Yet another risk that I wasn't informed about pre-vasectomy...). I hope that he'll actually proceed with research / dissertation! My general feeling is that the urologists don't want to study this - they'd rather proceed with business as usual, and not risk the revenue stream associated with vasectomies - just one guy's opinion!
January 8, 2004. Comment by Darrel:-
Steve, I think your posts have been the most helpful in my search. Here's a quick rundown of my story. I had a vasectomy on 12/18/03 - closed ended and titanium clipped. The procedure went ok - just the normal pain for a few days. 2 weeks later, I was pain-free and had sex. 2 days after that, I experienced discomfort (a dull ache) throughout the day. The next morning, I had sex again. 2 hours later, I was in immense pain. I was folded over screaming like a baby. I almost called 911 but figured out that they would just end up calling my doctor anyway. I called the doctor and he saw me in his office. He said that he thinks it's infected but thought it was strange that it's infected 2+ weeks after the procedure. He gave me antibiotics that I am almost done with. I still hurt, it's hard to walk. The constant pain you talked about having - does it last forever basically? Plus does the post-sex problem I described sound like what you had? After your reversal, have you had any pain at all before/during/after sex? Thank you.
January 8, 2004. Comment by Steve:-
Hi, Darrell. I'm sorry about your situation. Your symptoms sound a bit different from mine. The intensity of your post-sex pain you describe is worse than anything I experienced. Occasionally I would experience an acute piercing pain in the testicles during sex. While it was usually bad enough to end that sexual encounter, I was never in the severe pain you describe. The chronic ache/pain for me was cyclical - much worse at times, at infrequent times it would actually go away. The reversal resolved virtually all of the chronic pain. I will occasionally get a small ache after sex that reminds me of the pain I used to have - but it's not bad, and does not affect the quality of my life...
Good luck. You may want to post over at the google list to see if David or others have any advice for you. Email me directly if you'd like to correspond further.
February 8, 2004. Comment by Mark:-
Does anyone out there know of specific studies related to PVP and if a reversal is effective. My insurance company denied my reversal but stated that I can appeal their decision if I can show that there are studies related to a vasectomy and PVP and how reversals can help. Any help would be appreciated.
February 8, 2004. Comment by Lisa:-
Mark--You could try contacting our doctor, Michael Witt, in Atlanta. He can cite some studies for you. He wrote a letter to our insurance company, which pursuaded them to pay. hope this helps! Lisa
February 8, 2004. Comment by webmaster:-
Mark. I think your insurance company should be aware of the research. Take a look at the medical journals section on this site medical | medical papers | medical journals from the main menu if you use internet explorer. There is a sub section titled pvp incidence and treatment that has some studies into reversal's effectivenes in treating pvp. You can always look at medline (national library of medicine) that is linked to from the journals page and search for additional studies. Please keep in contact and let us know how things work out. You might like to consider posting to the newsgroup for a wider discussion.
February 13, 2004. Comment by Mark:-
Thanks for the help. I went to my urologist on Monday and he said he would be happy to write a letter. I haven't been to him in about a year and a half. Why go if he can do nothing for the pain? My insurance company noticed that and was somewhat skeptical about my problems. I have checked out a few of the journal articles. Doesn't seem to be alot though. Maybe I need to do a broader search.
February 13, 2004. Comment by Lisa:-
Mark-If you need our doctor to release records for proof, we'll be happy to do so.
February 13, 2004. Comment by Mark:-
Lisa: Yes, that would be great. What do I need to do???
February 13, 2004. Comment by Mark:-
Do I need to contact Dr. Witt to get a letter written?? Do you have an email address or phone # for him???
February 14, 2004. Comment by Steve:-
Mark: it sounds like you have your ducks in a row re: the insurance company. Let me go over a few details, though. I worked in the insurance industry for 15 years, and know at least some of the ins and outs... don't give up on having your insurance company pay for this - and don't take their first 'no.' Almost all policies, whether they are self-insured by your employer or an insured plan by the insurance company, give you rights of appeal in case you have a requested service denied because it is not a covered benefit or they do not think it is a medically necessary service. Your attorney should know all about this. Stay very proactive here. Have your doctor document your symptoms, and quote the few relevant studies (I'm aware of 2) which indicate the success rate of reversals in treating pvp:
J Urol. 1997 Feb;157(2):518-20; Vasectomy reversal for treatment of the post-vasectomy pain syndromepvp:
J Urol. 2000 Dec;164(6):1939-42; Vasectomy reversal for the post-vasectomy pain syndrome: a clinical and histological evaluationpvp:
Best Wishes!
February 14, 2004. Comment by Mark:-
Steve: Thanks for the quick response. Yes, I'm working with Dr. Marks out of Tucson, AZ. He specializes in reversal for fertility and pain. I have spoken to him by phone on 2 different occasions over the past 1.5 years. We spoke for about 30 minutes each time. I've heard nothing but good things about him. I live over here in southeast New Mexico and am lucky that he is only about an 8 hour drive away. My surgery is scheduled for March 29th. I have an advocacy group that is part of my employer that will take all of the studies, my medical records and 2 letters of medical necessity from my PCP and my Urologist to my insurance company to fight for payment. So, I feel like everything is in order. I have spoken to an attorney about all of this and am waiting to see what my insurance company will do. No matter what, I will have it done regardless of who pays. Life is too short to feel like someone is kicking you between the legs. You, know what I mean.
I, of course, had none of these problems until after the vasectomy - NO pain, no dysfunction, etc. I have already educated my 13 year old son on never having a vasectomy done, never, never, never.
February 14, 2004. Comment by Mark:-
I was just wondering. Is your husband still pain free after the reversal? It has been 2 years since???
February 14, 2004. Comment by Steve:-
Hi, Mark. Yep - virtually pain free 2 yrs, 1 mo post reversal.
Getting into this late - have you found a urologist who knows anything about PVP? The only way I made any progress was to finally find Dr. Witt - who had incorporated the treatment of PVP into his practice, and kept (presumably, still keeps up!) with the latest thinking about potential treatments. If you haven't I suggest that you have to become the expert here. Do as David suggested - dig into the articles linked to here on the website. Find those relevant to what you have experienced, including those referencing the success rate of treating pvp with reversal. Take the articles to your physician - he should be the one organizing the information to get the benefit exception from your insurance company. If s/he's your average urologist, you'll have to be the one feeding the information. If you are attempting to have a reversal, be sure you're seeing a specialist who is an expert - don't trust your reversal to your average urologist who may only have done a few a year. I suggest seeing an infertility specialist - they probably have the most knowledge / expertise. Best wishes!
February 15, 2004. Comment by webmaster:-
15/2/04 david:- One further document that may be of use is the Christiansen & Sandlow article "Testicular Pain Following Vasectomy: A Review of Postvasectomy Pain Syndrome" published in 2003. You can only (strictly speaking) get it by purchasing it online - $7 US, but I'll email you a copy if you want. To purchase online there is a link on the bottom of the FAQ page. You can contact me at webmaster@vasectomy-information.com
It's a review of several papers, and one of it's conclusions is that reveral is effective in selected patients.
February 16, 2004. Comment by Mark:-
Could you please email the article to me. I'm under the gun here and will send all of my info to the insurance company in a few days. So I will need it rather quickly. Thanks.
February 24, 2004. Comment by Mark:-
Steve: Just got a call from my Insurance Company. They have agreed to pay 70% of the cost of my Vasectomy reversal for Pain!!! What a great day :-)
February 24, 2004. Comment by Lisa:-
Mark, that is great news!!! That's why we keep posting to this site...to let others know they don't have to suffer! Best wishes for a full recovery for you! Let us know.
February 26, 2004. Comment by webmaster-
A result!!! That's good news, and as Steve says please keep us posted.
February 26, 2004. Comment by Mark:-
I will certainly keep you posted after surgery on March 29th. Thanks again for the support
April 1, 2004. Comment by Mark:-
Steve & Lisa: Back from Tucson and the reversal. Obviously, still sore since the reversal on Monday. Dr. Marks was excellent and documented what he found once he got "in there". Apparently, the Dr. that did the original vasectomy cut the vas "very low" toward the testicle end and thus the pressure could not be spread out over the area. The epididymis was not blocked just pressured and a straight vas-to-vas was performed. I can tell there is some difference in the amount of PVP I am experiencing but it is still too soon to tell since I have post-op pain. I feel this was the correct path and will keep all posted as post-op pain subsides.
April 1, 2004. Comment by webmaster:-
Mark, I'm glad you are having good results from the reversal, and it's not the first time we have heard of PVP being caused by cutting too close to the epididymus. I'd be really grateful if you could submit your story for the site sometime, along with the latest news. Hope you keep us posted!
April 3, 2004. Comment by Mark:-
Steve: Just wondering.... After your reversal did you experience the need to frequently urinate?? I am "going" quite a bit and it appears that I am having difficulty emptying my bladder. I suspect it may be related to swelling down in that area or some type of relief regarding the pressure that was built up for so long. I will call the doc on Monday. Any thoughts?
April 6, 2004. Comment by Mark:-
Steve: Not sure what is going on here. Pain has increased. Pain extending up into the groin area on both sides. Still have swelling. Doctor suggested more ice and take it easier for the next 2-3 days. It has been 9 days since the reversal. Did your pain last that long? Tried going back to work today but pain was too much. Have only taken 1 pain pill since the operation. I guess I will need to take some more. This increased pain doesn't seem right. Any thoughts???
April 6, 2004. Comment by Lisa:-
Mark...remember, this was much more invasive a procedure than the original. Please...take it easy. Steve didn't move for 3 days after, and was still very sore and weak for a bit. Will make sure he sees your post and responds. Lisa
April 7, 2004. Comment by Steve:-
Hi, Mark. One word: drugs! I took plenty of pain pills after the surgery. This was pretty invasive! My doc prescribed percoset, which was great except that it caused hemmorhoids, which to me were more painful than the surgery itself. Metamucil chaser w/ percoset! Keep your chin up and don't try to tough this out - prescription help was great! Keep us informed!
April 21, 2004. Comment by Mark:-
Steve/Lisa: Well most of the post-op pain has gone. Unfortunately the pain still remains. My pain in the prostate area has increased significantly and the pain in the epididymis remains as well.
The surgeon is not really sure why but informed me that prior to surgery things may hurt worse, same or not at all after the surgery. The pain that I am feeling however is very similar to the pain I felt intially 2 years after the vas. Maybe my symptoms are gradually waning to the point of subsiding. Will keep you informed :-(
Steve 2
Stuart 2
Tom 2
Trifold
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